Weekend Roundup

Ok, so this past weekend fell a wee bit short of what I would consider a success. Right now we are having two fairly serious problems. If we don’t fix them, I don’t see us being able to continue playing as a raid guild.

Attendence

I’m not sure what is going on with people signing up then not showing up (or showing up late). It is insanely disrespectful to the people who are looking forward to these raids. Is it because people don’t really care about the game and just randomly decide to do real life stuff? Are people signing up, then forgetting? Are people just signing up because they think if they don’t they won’t be able to loot? Please, someone shed some light on this here. It seems pretty simple to me that if you say you are going to be somewhere at a certain time, you do it.

Lack of Enthusiasm-Drive-Focus-Whatever

A few weeks ago we split from raiding with the FO9 folks. Aside from having some shortages in certain classes, they have been able to largely pick up where they left off and are making good progress on Rag. We, on the hand, seem more content to just chat on vent about loot or whatever. I’d don’t have a problem with goofing around, but we don’t need to organize 40 people to goof around. If we want to goof around we should start scheduling Deadmines raids.

“You landlubbers are thougher than I thought, I’ll have to im-pro-vise.”

Seriously though, when we are on a raid people need to be paying attention. That’s what is killing our raids and making us wipe over and over again. I’d like to point out a postive example of what I’m trying to get at here. Two weeks ago we were in MC and we tore through the trash mobs and bosses alike. We were having like zero deaths and we were hauling ass. I hope you guys will agree with me that an experience like that is more enjoyable than this pass weekend’s experience. Most of the same people were at both raids. The only difference was the attitude of the players. So what’s going on?

I’m looking for feedback on the situation. Please post some comments.

15 Responses to “Weekend Roundup”

  1. wishiwasevil Says:

    “You landlubbers are thougher than I thought, I’ll have to im-pro-vise.” i

  2. wishiwasevil Says:

    wow i just wrote an epic post…and it vanished. i’d retype it but i’m too godamn lazy

  3. am0n Says:

    Well, as usual, my opinions have no weight… but here is what i’ve seen/heard in my whopping 1 day back….

    Quite a few people are upset with the fact that STNY really started to show some potential, and recently seems to have lost that and began to back track. No one has informed me ‘why’, but I imagine school starting, people not showing up for raids, etc isn’t helping moral. I’ve also been told that a few people who IMO are capable, contribute greatly, and are great players will soon be departing from STNY. Primarily, they spend $16 a month to enjoy the game in their own way, and a lot of them want to raid and raid successfully.

    Since STNY has more or less broken off from the alliance, I will make some personal comments. I may or may not be correct, but being that a whopping 10 people in the guild seem to ever contribute/comment on these things, it won’t hurt to give some feedback.

    The alliance brought in a couple things, including but not limited to experience ( many of the guys we went with had a lot of experience, something that only about 2 of our guys had ), as well as numbers. Without the numbers, it REALLY means if you sign up, you show up. I think right about now would be a good time to impose a penalty system for not showing up, as people aren’t going to take it seriously otherwise. In regards to experience, while STNY has done some things with the alliance successfully, I can almost guarantee that very few paid attention and perhaps now with less experience overall in the raid ( in the form of leaders ) it’s harder to keep people focused. Perhaps now would be a good time to retreat back to the roots? Start the instances slow again, discuss strategy before a fight, even if it’s been fought before, to let everyone catch up and remind those who forgot. Also, one thing I noticed with Onyxia that would be critical IMO; When you fail, don’t rez and re-zerg. The Onyxia run was all about that really. We went in well, failed, rezed, went back in and charged her again. I don’t know about you guys, but when I make mistakes on exams, or when I mess something up, I like to look back at it to figure out my mistakes so I don’t make them again. Something like this might be an appropriate approach? Next time you run Onyxia, or any other boss, communicate what needs to be done ( again, there are some people who are new, or decided long ago they could just flow, press there button or two, and be fine, when in reality it takes more than that even if that’s all it seems you are doing ) and how to do it. If you fail, instead of zerging her again, zone in, and talk. Figure out what you think went wrong; Did someone pull aggro? Why did they pull aggro? How can it be prevented? Was there not enough healing on the MT? How much did we have? How much more do we need? How can be get more healing on the MT? Did we attack too soon? Did the MT not build enough aggro? How much longer should he go before we attack? Asking these questions, answering them, and then sticking to it is the key to success.

    In reality though, everyone needs to keep this in mind..

    The best things in life are those worth working for.

    If you want to be successful in the raids, you need to work at it. Yes, this is a game, but high end raiding isn’t. High end raiding is work, period. The positive side to it though, is if people cooperate, it doesn’t have to feel like work, and as people get better at cooperating, at communicating, the work will pay off and you spend less time working, and more time having fun and reaping the benefits of that work. I don’t like to compare guilds, because STNY is there own group, but look at Macabre. They worked, they worked hard, and now they reap the benefits. They put time, patience, and discipline into the raiding experience and now they get Onyxia first try, they run MC in only a few hours, not nights, and many of them are nicely equipped.

    I also think we shouldn’t ‘put all our eggs in one basket’ so to speak. The other night Skier’s connection wasn’t so hot. The problem wasn’t Skier’s connection though, the problem was that we didn’t have other MTs who have experience. Axavier had tried once, didn’t do very well with it being his FIRST TRY, yet people started to get on his case. Perhaps it’s time Skier became just another tank in the group and we let others get experience? And it’s not about equipment. Yes, Skier has some better equipment, but the first time Onyxia was brought down wasn’t with a Quel and half a set of Might. It was with a Sword, a high armor shield, and some Valor.

  4. Ceres Says:

    I posted a reply to Amun’s post in the gaming.stny.com forums…

  5. Simpkin Says:

    I agree that there needs to be a penalty for signing up and not showing up (at least without a damn good excuse). I hope this was just a hiccup and from now on we won’t have these sorts of issues. I get a lot of enjoyment out of doing the higher end stuff as a guild. I think the majority of the people enjoy it too. We have recruited a large number of people to be able to have 40 people of the right class mix available. We schedule the raids for the weekends and Friday nights where it is likely the majority of people can attend. Perhaps we should look at scheduling them earlier on the weekends so that people who want to go out or what not would be able to go. Say maybe 2 o’clock or something. I may be way off but it could help grab a few more people that have dates or social gatherings to attend. Friday is going to probably have to stay the way it is because the vast majority of us work or go to school.

    Maybe we should evaluate our membership list and get rid of some of the people that have been idle for a month or so to give us a better idea of the classes that we are still in need of. While it was a common joke that we could field 30 mages for a raid lately we have had about 4 show up for the raids. Not to piss any mages off but we really could use more than that (being as they are a high dps class). Warlocks and hunters we all know are lacking. About 2 more of each that are serious players would be plenty. Priests and Druids we have now if they show up and warriors and rogues are our two best attending classes by far.

    I don’t know I was really disappointed and felt semi foolish after the attendance. I really pressed for guild only raids because I didn’t want to see people from STNY who wanted to do MC and Onyxia sitting on the sidelines and now those people are not showing up or showing up hours late. If you are going to be a casual raider and don’t plan on going the majority of the time let one of the officers know that way we can adjust our membership/ recruiting list to reflect the fact that maybe one class has more casual players. I’m not talking hard core but if you plan to attend like one raid a month we need to know that.

  6. Kelsin Says:

    Like others have said: people need to show up on time. End of story. If you sign up (non-tenative in our surrent system) for a raid, you need to show up on time. Be in redridge at 8, or 6, or whatever time the raid is starting. Once there we need to keep Vent clear of jokes so that discussion that is needed can go on. People can’t be filling Vent and Raid Chat with discussion that shouldn’t be there. Joking can be done in guild chat or in your own private channels. Raid chat and vent should be kept relatively clear for strategy.

    If we ever start a fight (boss or not) and you don’t know exactly what your job is, there is a problem. Either we aren’t organized enough to tell you your job (in which case you should ask, and we should either hear or see your question since Vent or Raid Chat should be nice and clean) or you heard but weren’t paying attention and now you aren’t prepared.

    Our leaders seem organized enough. The players should be as well… If we get organized then loot will flow… 🙂

  7. Ryalt Says:

    I can’t say anything else really that hasn’t already been said, but I would like to emphasize a few things:

    1) I don’t mind people talking in raid chat as long as everyone is in Vent, and as long as vent stays clear. Last raid I had trouble hearing what exactly was going on because of all the noise on vent, and I’m sure if I had that problem, others did too. So keeping vent clean of excess chat on raids is a high priority in my book.

    2) People who signed up, not showing up or showing up very late. That seems to be a recurring theme, and its not a good one. If someone does that enough, penaltys should be undertaken. As long as you can tell someone ahead of time with good reason why you can’t be there, its understandible.

    3) Level 60’s online who do not wish to go on the raid. I don’t get that. Also consider people leaving a raid that isn’t going too hot to go do other things. At least have the courtesy to leave the server, and not just play your character in LBRS or Strat or Scholo. That’s just not cool.

    4) Before we start each raid, we should have a designated leader for each aspect, such as general leadership, healing groups, boss positions, and such like that. With a little preplanning before every raid, I think that could be easily done.

    5) I know officers have the ability to mute people on vent. That’s not always a bad idea. They can still type in raid, and if it comes down to it, it might be the best overall for the raid.

    Thats pretty much it. I really think we can do great as long as people put in their 100%, and can follow the directions, we are good to go. I went on those first couple STNY only raids, and we rocked it. Lets keep that mentality and do this right.

  8. Xandaria Says:

    Wow, this is quite an interesting topic and a needed one at that. I for one thought OUr first weekend at MC STNY only was a great success and made the mistake of assuming that all that followed wopuld be good as well. I do know that this month has been crazy for me. new baby HOme construction and crazy work schedule. Also I am trying to get away for a week or two.

    Guys, it simple. Summer is almost over, people are vacationing. Lets all get it together. IF you sign up for a raid be there! Don’t let your guildees down. STNY was founded as a group of friends that worked together to have a good time and be social (ok so virtually-social) as the few of us original STNY guys can tell you we are all about helping each other and have fun doing it. This Game has changed that to some degree. We need to get the guild together. HAve respect for each other and be friends. Friends is what we (STNY) are all about.

    NOW FRIENDS DONT SCREW EACH OTHER OVER. MC requires an immense amount of co-ordination and leadership. We can not all be the leader. Therefore we should not all be talking on VENT. Let the Raid organizers control the voice communication and listen. You might learn how to fight a boss better or something you didn’t know. You might not. But, if you are talking, people that want to learn the strategies won’t and we will wipe! We need to get MC down to a science so that we can progess to BWL and get some more phat lewts!

    I will be back in september, As I imagine will many of you as well, and I hope we are MC journymen on the way to MC masters.

    STNY ROXORS forever!

    I love you all my brothers and sisters.
    –Xandaria

  9. med Says:

    reroll horde 🙁

  10. Euge Says:

    I put up an MC raid for Friday at 8 to get things started. Pinpoint has agreed to lead and we’ll need other people to help with things like buff macros and heal groups. Please sign up and show up so we can get off to a good start.

    Someone is also going to need access to the current loot %s, pm me or Pinpoint ingame if you have this.

    Euge

  11. sadako Says:

    i posted a reply on the stny forums also but i guess ill post here too. basiclaly what everyoen above has said goes double for me. allthough i was also victim to family emergencies (sunday i was unable to attend) i still tried to make it to the raid. i was unable to. thats fine. it happens we all know you guys all have other commitments not just this game. we understand. you cant just shut out life for a weekend.

    so you know what? lets aim for a 2 day clear of mc. not a 4 day. lets not shoot for rag yet. if we beat domo we succeed for now. but a 2 day clea will leave you with 1 day off a weekend to do whatever you want. i propose it to be friday since thats when most couples go out.

    this weekend i will not be able to attend raids like i said in my post. its not because of the growing trend of apathy. evryone knows im gung ho about MC i play my priest when needed and dont loot cause i save my rolls for my warrior. but my bro comes in from peru on friday night and on saturday its my gf’s bday and on sunday her family has invited me over. so ill be busy i might get on for an hour maybe but i doubt ill be able to raid.

    like i said in my post on the forums, im just hoping its because its august. and once zul gurub and september come along we will see more activity.

    lets all work together and aim for a 2 day clear so we can have 1 day off on the weekends.

  12. Nocardic Says:

    Hi folks,

    Some people already have expressed their opinions & feedback on the forum, but just to show solidarity, I will also post some of my thoughts.

    The posts before mine already made some very good points about what measures are needed to be more successful in raids. I’d just like to add some points:

    – Personal glory
    On Saturday’s Onyxia raid, someone mentioned about the negative impact of Damage Meter. I totally agree. Aggro management is one of the key issues in raids, and considering the Alliance already have it much easily with Blessing of Salvation, we should really know our place: how to not over-aggro with heals / damage / nukes etc. Maybe just to remind everyone (even for MC trash mobs) that we should let tank build up some considerable aggro first (sunder = 900 is a good meterstick) so that there won’t be any problems for MT.

    Also, as some of you may already have read / heard / encountered, in BWL there will be a mob who will completely ignore warrior’s taunt…if our MT can’t hold aggro effectively because someone over-healed or over-damaged, it won’t be pretty…

    – Professionalism
    It’s amazing to me, still a newbie to WoW, that we are able to field 40 players in such an organized fashion. I can understand if people want to do something fun, as this IS a game and people play games for relaxation. But just please be considerate.

    Exhibit some professionalism and common courtesy for the rest of the raid, because it’s highly likely that some 30+ people may not share the same humor or feeling as you and your friends say / type over common comm. channels.

    To me, as a priest, I have yet to grasp the understanding of Master Healer…but I know that when I am on the raid, I will be looking at the HP bar, the buff icons (CT RaidAssist FTW) where I sort Fort as the highest priority, and the raid chats for anyone needing heal/fort buffs. There should not be a need for someone to yell out / raid chat so-and-so needs buff 3 times and still no one to put on.

    – Necessary Tools
    I think we have discussed this before, to have a representative from each class to make sure each new lvl60 member install the necessary tools: Decursive, CTRAssit, Vent and whatnot. And it will probably be very helpful to have some type of “class setup.” For example, by-class sorting is good for Paladins for their buff assignments, and Mana-Conserve is very essential for Priests and Druids to conserve mana in a long-held fight.

    – Discipline and Order.
    I believe we need to set up some sort of discipline such that everyone should know what his/her job task is at all time. I think for healers we should set up “healing rotations” for boss fights, which I know we very much need because for long fights we run out of mana. If we set up healing rotations, we work with the 5-second rule system, we get more net mana regen than if everyone go at it at once, and run out of mana at precisely the same time…

    Anyways, long post and not sure if any of this will make it to anywhere important. Just thought I share some of my thoughts with the guild. This is the growing pain that we are suffering through, and I believe we will emerge from it a much more well-rounded guild.

    Good luck STNY
    – Nocardic

  13. Skier Says:

    Also, as some of you may already have read / heard / encountered, in BWL there will be a mob who will completely ignore warrior’s taunt…if our MT can’t hold aggro effectively because someone over-healed or over-damaged, it won’t be pretty…

    Actually, all of the bosses in BWL are non-tauntable. Onyxia is as well. For those of you that are unfamilar with warriors, we have this ability that we can use called Taunt which is on a 10 second cooldown (8 if you have talents). Taunt forces the warrior to the top of the aggro list for 2 seconds. This is how warriors are instantly able to pull aggro on themselves. On non-tauntable mobs, if someone pulls aggro by getting higher than the tank on the aggro list, the tank in turn has to work his way back up the list and bump you off the top.

    This is why certain classes should never pull aggro. Rouges can and should be feinting every 10 seconds (regardless if you’ve been critting a lot or just auto attacking). Hunters should be using Disengage (if in range) and Feign Death whenever possible. This is also why other damage classes (warlocks, mages, non-tanking warriors) need to be especially careful. Sure they can do lots of damage, but unlike the hunters and the rogues, they can’t shed their aggro. The only way for them to get lower on the aggro list is by someone else taking their place on the list or them dieing.

    Priests and druids are kinda half way in between. Priests can reduce aggro temporarily. They get a 10 second window of reduced aggro every 30 seconds which is enough to usually save their asses, but still not a fool-proof aggro solution. Druids get cower, which is identical to a rogues feint, however the druid has to be in cat form to use it. The druid should do so every so often, but the main thing for a healer to worry about in terms of aggro is not dumping too many heals in too short of a time period. When we set up a fight, we set up healers so they are able to split the healing load with other healers. If the healers in each fight only have to heal their designated target, they shouldn’t really have to worry about their aggro. The problem typically comes when someone pulls aggro or something, then they have to spam heals on that person, possibly pulling aggro to themselves. It’s pretty much a vicious circle and why a raid will go down so quick if aggro gets out of control.

  14. am0n Says:

    The only comment I have thus far:

    If a raid is posted for 8PM, we should be in Redridge by 7:30, and the first pull should be at 7:55. The 8PM start time means the pulls start at 8PM, not the raid starts moving at 8PM. People should be in RR at 7:30, the group should be moving out by 7:40, and stick together, so if we run into horde it doesn’t delay the whole trip. At 7:55 or so we should be inside at at very latest the first pull should be at 8PM. Why? Well, to a lot of people that is late, and the longer we screw around and procractinate starting, the higher the chance someone will have to leave before the raid is over. Also, as Skier said, it’s about aggro management. Each class has 2 lives. One life outside of instances, and one inside. Outside an instance a rogue spams ss/bs/evis, a mage spams nukes, etc etc… but inside an instance, especially a raid instance, things change. Rogues auto attack, tossing in a special now and then while constantly spamming feint. Even if you don’t think you’ll pull aggro, you should never over damage, especially not in stage 1. Stage 2 you DPS all you are worth and in stage 3, ONCE THE MT HAS AGGRO, you start to slowely unload. This goes for other high damage classes. Also, I think people need to practice positioning. I know with Onyxia in stage 3, if you get on the ridge you don’t take lava damage. Therefore if Onyxia is positioned well, and aggro not pulled ( yes, the MT can be feared and aggro lost, but this can be dealt with ), everyone can get on the ridge and do there thing, and when feared they won’t run off.

  15. duckylove Says:

    here’s something i’m upset about which you touched on just lightly skier.

    now i know everyone’s busy with their own things and can’t make it to every mc weekend but what happened to the enthusiam for the raid? I remember the first run we had and even the second weekend we did it, there were way more than enough people in mc wiling and ready to do their fair share. I come home from work last night and saw on Bleakster’s computer screen that there were only about 30 people in the raid.

    30!!

    i know i haven’t been able to join you all in mc for the past two weeks due to moving and now working friday and saturday evenings, but i’m more than willing to come along on sundays if you all need me/are going on sunday. everyone needs to have that attitude i think. after everyone complained so much about the FO9 pairing were’s sure not showing alot of initiative on our parts and this lack of playing/willing to participate is what skier was hesitant about before and why we were not running MC earlier when we had enough for it. everyone needs to pitch in more should it be only for a night, a few hours, whatever. there needs to be more participation and more support being shown in these raids.

    i could be wrong here, but that’s just how i feel

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